at large = свободный и внешний?

Автор Nancy, 25 ноября 2014, 11:13

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fidel

Цитата: Ray от 26 ноября 2014, 09:51а вот ещё переводит как "пространно"http://www.babla.ru/%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9-%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9/at-largeпо ссылке много примеров употребления
в списке к идиоме at large относится два параграфа

society at large - перведено как общество - at large здесь как бы "в целом"
world at large   - Мир с большой буквы - мир как целое, как субьект

Остальное относится к различным вариантам употребления слова large
а не идиомы at large

(сталкер не обязан понимать то, о чем он говорит)

Nancy

использование at large в других книгах, кроме Огня Изнутри

 DX ENGLISH

1. The Teachings of Don Juan
At that moment I felt a great surge of wisdom engulfing me. A conjecture I had played with for three years turned then into a certainty. It had taken me three years to realize, or rather to find out, that whatever is contained in the cactus Lophophora williamsii had nothing to do with me in order to exist as an entity; it existed by itself out there, at large. I knew it then.
I sang feverishly until I could no longer voice the words. I felt as if my songs were inside my body, shaking me uncontrollably. I needed to go out and find Mescalito, or I would explode. I walked towards the peyote field. I kept on singing my songs. I knew they were individually mine - the unquestionable proof of my singleness. I sensed each one of my steps. They resounded on the ground; their echo produced the indescribable euphoria of being a man.


3.Journey to Ixtlan
In a calm soft voice he urged me to get hold of myself, because the darkness was like
the wind, an unknown entity at large that could trick me if I was not careful. And I had to
be perfectly calm in order to deal with it.

He warned us that there were other forces at large in those lava mountains, forces
which did not resemble the allies; they did not make any noise, but appeared only as
fleeting shadows, and did not have any power at all.


4. Tales of Power
Don Juan reminded me that my argument had no basis for him, and that, long before, he had already made the point that there was no world at large but only a description of the world which we had learned to visualize and take for granted.
"The tonal is everything we know," he said. "I think this in itself is enough reason for the tonal to be such an overpowering affair."

6. Eagle's Gift
I did not answer. There was no point in protesting. I remembered the countless times I had believed that don Juan and don Genaro were in cahoots with each other. I thought that while don Juan talked to me in the darkness, don Genaro would put on a disguise in order to scare me, and don Juan would insist that it was an ally. The idea that there were allies or entities at large that escape our everyday attention had been too farfetched for me. But then I had lived to find out that the allies of don Juan's description existed in fact; there were, as he had said, entities at large in the world.

9. The Art of Dreaming
Three, they saw that, in the course of ordinary dreams, the assemblage point becomes easily displaced by itself to another position on the surface or in the interior of the luminous egg.
Four, they saw that the assemblage point can be made to move to positions outside the luminous egg, into the energy filaments of the universe at large.

10. The Active Side of Infinity
Don Juan assured me that inner silence is the avenue that leads to a true suspension of judgment-to a moment when sensory data emanating from the universe at large ceases to be interpreted by the senses; a moment when cognition ceases to be the force which, through usage and repetition, decides the nature of the world.

Don Juan maintained, from the start of our association, that the world of the sorcerers of ancient Mexico was different from ours, not in a shallow way, but different in the way in which the Process of cognition was arranged. He maintained that in our world our cognition requires the interpretation of sensory data. He said that the universe is composed of an infinite number of energy fields that exist in the universe at large as luminous filaments. Those luminous filaments act on man as an organism. The response of the organism is to turn those energy fields into sensory data. Sensory data is then interpreted, and that interpretation becomes our cognitive system. My understanding of cognition forced me to believe that it is a universal process, as language is a universal process. There is a different syntax for every language, as there must be a slightly different arrangement for every system of interpretation in the world.

Don Juan asserted that on the assemblage point of human beings, zillions of energy fields from the universe at large, in the form of luminous filaments, converge and go through it. These energy fields are converted into sensory data, and the sensory data is then interpreted and perceived as the world we know. Don Juan further explained that what turns the luminous fibers into sensory data is the dark sea of awareness. Sorcerers see this transformation and call it the glow of awareness, a sheen that extends like a halo around the assemblage point. He warned me then that he was going to make a statement which, in the understanding of sorcerers, was central to comprehending the scope of the recapitulation.

"The difficulty with your facing things in terms of time and space," he continued, "is that you only notice if something has landed in the space and time at your disposal, which is very limited. Sorcerers, on the other hand, have a vast field on which they can notice if something extraneous has landed. Lots of entities from the universe at large, entities that possess awareness but not an organism, land in the field of awareness of our world, or the field of awareness of its twin world, without an average human being ever noticing them. The entities that land on our field of awareness, or the field of awareness of our twin world, belong to other worlds that exist besides our world and its twin. The universe at large is crammed to the brim with worlds of awareness, organic and inorganic."

"What is it, don Juan?" I asked. "I see fleeting black shadows all over the place."
"Ah, that's the universe at large," he said, "incommensurable, nonlinear, outside the realm of syntax. The sorcerers of ancient Mexico were the first ones to see those fleeting shadows, so they followed them around. They saw them as you're seeing them, and they saw them as energy that flows in the universe. And they did discover something transcendental."

11.The Wheel of Time
The eyes of man can perform two functions: one is seeing energy at large as it flows in the universe and the other is "looking at things in this world." Neither of these functions is better than the other; however to train the eyes only to look is a shameful and unnecessary loss.
Warriors who deliberately attain total awareness are a sight to behold. That is the moment when they burn from within. The fire from within consumes them. And in full awareness they fuse themselves to the emanations of the Eagle at large, and glide into eternity.

[свернуть]

Nancy

Castaneda - The Fire from Within

Спойлер
Don Juan said that the pressure that the emanations outside the cocoon,
which are called emanations at large, exert on the emanations inside the cocoon is the same in all sentient beings. Yet the results of that pressure are vastly different among them, because their cocoons react to that pressure in every conceivable way. There are. however, degrees of uniformity within certain boundaries.
"Now," he went on, "when seers see that the pressure of the emanations at
large bears down on the emanations inside, which are always in motion, and makes
them stop moving, they know that the luminous being at that moment is fixated by
awareness.
"To say that the emanations at large bear down on those inside the cocoon
and make them stop moving means that seers see something indescribable, the
meaning of which they know without a shadow of doubt. It means that the voice of
seeing has told them that the emanations inside the cocoon are completely at rest
and match some of those which are outside."
He said that seers maintain, naturally, that awareness always comes from
outside ourselves, that the real mystery is not inside us. Since by nature the
emanations at large are made to fixate what is inside the cocoon, the trick of
awareness is to let the fixating emanations merge with what is inside us. Seers
believe that if we let that happen we become what we really are?fluid, forever in
motion, eternal.
................
"The degree of awareness of every individual sentient being," he continued,
"depends on the degree to which it is capable of letting the pressure of the
emanations at large carry it."
.........................
He reiterated that awareness begins with the permanent pressure that the
emanations at large exert on the ones trapped inside the cocoon. This pressure
produces the first act of consciousness; it stops the motion of the trapped
emanations, which are fighting to break the cocoon, fighting to die.
...........................
"Human beings take notice of the emanations they have inside their
cocoons," he replied. "No other creatures do that. The moment the pressure from
the emanations at large fixates the emanations inside, the first attention begins to
watch itself. It notes everything about itself, or at least it tries to, in whatever
aberrant ways it can. This is the process seers call taking an inventory.
...
"How do seers see that man takes an inventory?" I asked.
"The emanations inside the cocoon of man are not quieted down for purposes of matching them with those outside," he replied. "This is evident after seeing what other creatures do. On quieting down, some of them actually merge themselves with the emanations at large and move with them. Seers can see, for instance, the light of the scarabs' emanations expanding to great size.
"But human beings quiet down their emanations and then reflect on them.
The emanations focus on themselves."
He said that human beings carry the command of taking an inventory to its logical extreme and disregard everything else. Once they are deeply involved in the inventory, two things may happen. They may ignore the impulses of the emanations at large, or they may use them in a very specialized way.

................................
Human reason appears to a seer as an unusually homogeneous dull glow that rarely if ever responds to the constant pressure from the emanations at large a glow that makes the egglike shell become tougher, but more brittle.
.................................
He asserted that the awareness of all living beings has a degree of selfreflection in order for them to interact. But none except man's first attention has such a degree of selfabsorption. Contrary to men of reason, who ignore the impulse of the emanations at large, the selfabsorbed individuals use every impulse and turn them all into a force to stir the trapped emanations inside their cocoons.
.........................
Observing all this, seers arrived at a practical conclusion. They saw that men of reason are bound to live longer, because by disregarding the impulse of the emanations at large, they quiet down the natural agitation inside their cocoons. The selfabsorbed individuals, on the other hand, by using the impulse of the emanations at large to create more agitation, shorten their lives.
........................
When I pressed hard for an explanation of clustering he replied that the assemblage point radiates a glow that groups together bundles of encased emanations. These bundles then become aligned, as bundles, with the emanations at large. Clustering is carried out even when seers deal with the emanations that are never used. Whenever they are emphasized, we perceive them just as we perceive the clusters of the first attention.
.........................
"The force of the emanations at large," he went on, "makes our assemblage point select certain emanations and cluster them for alignment and perception.
That's the command of the Eagle, but all the meaning that we give to what we perceive is our command, our gift of magic."
.........................
They began by seeing how the glow of awareness increases in size and intensity as the emanations inside the cocoon are aligned with the emanations at large. They used that observation as a springboard, just as they had done with stalking, and went on to develop a complex series of techniques to handle that alignment of emanations.
...........................
Don Juan restated over and over that the portion of emanations inside man's cocoon is in there only for awareness, and that awareness is matching that portion of emanations with the same portion of emanations at large. They are called emanations at large because they are immense; and to say that outside man's cocoon is the unknowable is to say that within the earth's cocoon is the unknowable. However, inside the earth's cocoon is also the unknown, and inside man's cocoon the unknown is the emanations untouched by awareness. When the glow of awareness touches them, they become active and can be aligned with the corresponding emanations at large. Once that happens the unknown is perceived and becomes the known.
.......................
"Genaro just helped you to align your emanations with those emanations at large that belong to another band," don Juan said to me. "Alignment has to be a very peaceful, unnoticeable act. No flying away, no great fuss."
..........................
I asked him a lot of questions about the survival of awareness after the luminous being is consumed by the fire from within. He did not answer. He simply chuckled, shrugged his shoulders, and went on to say that the old seers' obsession with the tumbler blinded them to the other side of that force. The new seers, with their usual thoroughness in refusing tradition, went to the other extreme. They were at first totally averse to focusing their seeing on the tumbler; they argued that they needed to understand the force of the emanations at large in its aspect of lifegiver and enhancer of awareness.
[свернуть]

Nancy

They are called emanations at large because they are immense;

Их назвали ...at large..... эманациями, потому что они ......immense

immense

ПЕРЕВОД IMMENSE

1. Extremely large; huge.
Очень большой; огромный
2. Of boundless or immeasurable size or extent.
Безграничных или неизмеримых размеров .

http://www.thesaurus.com/
Synonyms for immense
adj extremely large

•   boundless
•   colossal
•   endless
•   enormous
•   extensive
•   immeasurable
•   infinite
•   limitless

http://slovari.yandex.ru/

безмерный, очень большой, огромный; необъятный 4 источника
immense relief — большое облегчение
at an immense distance /length/ — на огромном расстоянии
Синоним: massive, huge, enormous1
обширный, очень просторный, необъятный; беспредельный, бесконечный; безмерный; бескрайний; безграничный
the immense and boundless universe — бескрайняя и бесконечная Вселенная
immense space — необъятное пространство
an immense territory — обширная территория

http://www.multitran.ru/
  общ.    огромный; колоссальный; громадный; безмерный; необъятный; великолепный; необозримый; баснословный (Anglophile); значительное (mark.B); гигантский (I. Havkin); очень большой
бизн.    неизмеримый
  Макаров    безграничный; бесконечный; бескрайний; беспредельный
  матем.    грандиозный
  разг.    замечательный
[свернуть]

Aimo

Эманции в коконе, и at large - в большом свободном пространстве

fidel

Цитата: Aimo от 15 января 2015, 20:30Эманции в коконе, и at large - в большом свободном пространстве

at large [æt lɑːʤ]
сущ
1 в целом
2 на свободе
3 на большом
4 при больших
5 на воле
6 по большому счету

ЦитироватьThey are called emanations at large because they are immense
нужно посмотреть что в испанском варианте потому что как то сложно
связать "at large" c "immense"
(сталкер не обязан понимать то, о чем он говорит)

Aimo

Цитата: fidel от 15 января 2015, 23:043 на большом
вот это наверно точнее. то есть буквально - в большом, на большом

fidel

Цитата: Aimo от 16 января 2015, 06:39вот это наверно точнее. то есть буквально - в большом, на большом
на Чукотке наверно так и выражают свои мысли
(сталкер не обязан понимать то, о чем он говорит)

Aimo

Цитата: fidel от 16 января 2015, 11:08на Чукотке наверно так и выражают свои мысли
тут кажется все понятно, есть эманации в условном пространстве кокона и есть в большом условном пространстве вне. иногда не стоит при переводе выбирать вариант из выданных переводчиком.

fidel

В испанском варианте то же самое присваивание
ЦитироватьDon Juan volvió a decir una y otra vez que la por¬ción de emanaciones que hay en el interior del capullo del hombre se encuentra allí sólo para evocar la concien¬cia de ser, y que la conciencia consiste en alinear porcio-nes de emanaciones internas con las mismas porciones de las emanaciones en grande. Se les llama emanaciones en grande porque son inmensas; y decir que lo que no se puede conocer queda fuera del capullo del hombre es decir que queda dentro del capullo de la tierra. Sin em¬bargo, dentro del capullo de la tierra también queda lo desconocido, y en el interior del capullo del hombre lo desconocido consiste en las emanaciones no tocadas por el fulgor de la conciencia cotidiana. Cuando las toca, se activan y se alinean con las emanaciones en grande que les corresponden. Una vez que eso ocurre, lo desco¬nocido se percibe y se convierte en lo conocido.

en grande 1) в общем, в целом 2) крупно, в большом объёме 3) с размахом, на широкую ногу
inmenso огромный, обширный; безмерный
inmenso 1) безмерный; безграничный; необъятный 2) огромный; громадный; обширный

Можно перевести несколько в другом направлении выделенную фразу
"Они названы более общими (относящимися к целому) вследствие их величины"
странновато но по крайней мере есть логика присваивания

(сталкер не обязан понимать то, о чем он говорит)